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Finally ...
http://forum.fbodyeurope.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5145		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Garry [ Sun Nov 14, 2004 6:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Finally ...
... just heard on TV ... Germany outlawed aluminium heck spoilers ... maybe the police will finally pull some rice off the street :lol:
Author:  JackZ28 [ Sun Nov 14, 2004 6:43 pm ]
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Hip hip hooray, hip hip hooray! I wonder if they will enforce that with Americans. Man I hope so. I don't want to see that 'vette again.
Author:  Garry [ Sun Nov 14, 2004 7:03 pm ]
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Don't think so ... you US folks can still do anything to your cars ... good or bad ...
Author:  JackZ28 [ Sun Nov 14, 2004 7:37 pm ]
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AS much as I hate to admit it, you're probably right.
Author:  Roy [ Sun Nov 14, 2004 8:19 pm ]
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was it because the spoilers kept flying off of the cars , or because the spoiler equipped rice couldn't meet the min speed requirements for being on the autobahn with all that mad downforce.
Author:  Garry [ Sun Nov 14, 2004 8:48 pm ]
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Both popp to mind, but actually it's because of injury danger caused by them for pedestrians and cyclists ...
Author:  2slow [ Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:22 pm ]
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Garry, a bit more info please.
I am quite up to date with the legal requirements regarding spoilers etc. (I recently did the 997 GT3). I am quite convinced that the government cannot ban aluminium spoilers per se (you would need an EU directive, which would take years to formulate). What the government propably base their argument on is the fact that the end plates need a safety radius of min. R2.5 mm, but since the end plates are only about 3 mm thick the safety radius cannot be held. These types of thin end plates have always been illegal, it is just that now they will get serious about applying the law. On the 996 GT3 RS we have a similar type of spoiler, but we made the endplates of carbon thick enough to include the safety radius and have TÃœV approval.
Stef
Author:  Garry [ Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:31 pm ]
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Sorry, no details - they had a short thing on TV tonight, going mainly against the "tuner scene" style aluminium spoilers ... Fast&Furious type ... you know, the bookshelve bread cutter type ...
Author:  BenZ28 [ Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:37 am ]
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http://de.cars.yahoo.com/041103/292/4a14z.html

Ben
Author:  Daddy [ Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:52 am ]
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Stef, how much trouble do you guys get with TUV? Do you have a big book full of their guidlines to follow or do you just have them come look at the final product?
Author:  JackZ28 [ Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:58 am ]
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Daddy wrote:
Stef, how much trouble do you guys get with TUV? Do you have a big book full of their guidlines to follow or do you just have them come look at the final product?


They don't come look at anything. You take your car there, and if the part is not TUeV approved, you can't put it on. If you choose to put it on anyway, I imagine you could be subject to fines.
Author:  Daddy [ Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:03 am ]
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I'm talking about new cars. I don't think they would take a new Porche prototype to the local TUV shop.
Author:  JackZ28 [ Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:16 pm ]
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Oh, ok! Alles klar jetzt.
Author:  BenZ28 [ Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:20 pm ]
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I guess it depends on the money which is involved... :wink: e.g. the Euro-Viper has to change the sidepipes to a normal exhaust and the Mercedes SLR doesn't have any TUeV-problems with its sidepipes. :roll:

Ben
Author:  JackZ28 [ Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:30 pm ]
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I think you're right Ben. It's because they're made here. I see what's going on. It's a conspiracy against all things foreign. American cars, Japanese cars. That's why all the European cars have few problems.
Author:  2slow [ Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:30 pm ]
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JackZ28 wrote:
I think you're right Ben. It's because they're made here. I see what's going on. It's a conspiracy against all things foreign. American cars, Japanese cars. That's why all the European cars have few problems.

Jeez Jack feeling a bit lonely? We all like you, even when you vote redneck.
Regarding designing cars, we actually have very little to do with the TÃœV, we play above national level by homologating our cars. To sell cars in Europe you have to meet the EU directives and for the North American market you have to meet the US laws. We have libraries full of laws, rules, regulations etc. etc. and we usually spend up to 1 year in the planning phase to make our cars meet the requirements.
Once we are done with the car, we have to prepare a set of homologation papers and present it to Brussels, who will then send somebody to look at the car/papers (this would/could be a TÃœV person representing Brussels). When successful, the car type will be certified for Europe. Similar hassles for USA. After that we can build as many cars as we want without any further inspection. The only exception is Japan, where every car needs an individual inspection!!!! There you can talk about conspiracy.
Jack, the reason why European cars have few problems is simply because they are better by design and better in execution. American cars are cheaper, but cheap has its price.
There are no "special TÃœV deals" for German cars, if the Mercedes SLR has sidepipes it is because they were designed to meet the EU requirements. The rules are known and the Viper engineers either did not pay attention or did not design the sidepipes for sale in Europe. Sometimes you can get away with creative interpretations of the law, but again no "special deals".
Sometimes it is not worth the "financial" trouble to meet the laws of a certain market and then we will not sell the car in that market (typical 964 RS, 1st gen 996 GT3 in the USA).
Author:  JackZ28 [ Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:42 pm ]
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Ok, thanks for all the knowledge, but my point was that the people working at the TUeV seems to allow more things on German cars than other cars.
Author:  2slow [ Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:59 pm ]
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Not so sure. Throw a few examples my way.
Author:  JackZ28 [ Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:57 pm ]
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More Germans I know, who have American cars have more problems than guys I know with VWs, Opels and BMWs.
Author:  2slow [ Mon Nov 15, 2004 8:18 pm ]
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Your'e still a bit vague.
OK, now that we know there are no special deals for the manufacturers, we now move to the level of "Joe citizen" and his exposure to the TÃœV.
Basically the TÃœV's purpose is to make sure that all cars are safe and roadworthy. To make sure that things are done in the right way, it is deemed that the TÃœV employee (who stamps your test certificate) also carries the responsibility for his decision. In theory you can sue the guy if he approves your modifications and you crash shortly afterwards because said parts failed.
Most of the tuning parts for German cars have already been tested and awarded an ABE approval. Turn up at the TÃœV with your ABE and everything's ok (since there is an ABE, the TÃœV guy shifts all responsibility on the issuer of the ABE). Turn up with your US car and a Borla without papers, then you are going to have some grief. You now want the TÃœV tester to make a decision (on a product that he does not know) and accept responsibility for his decision. Tough call. To make sure that nothing will stick to him, the tester is going to ask for a lot of paperwork i.e. stress for you, which makes you think that the system is against you.
My feeling is that the average German beaurocrat don't really want to trip you up, he only wants to cover his ass. Give him enough paperwork and you will be allright.
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