F-Body Europe

Any car going faster than 10s on the quarter, or faster than 217km/h / 135mph is required to comply with the following security/safety features:

- Rollcage (can be replaced by rollbar on stock body/chassis cars); rollbar/cage has to be padded in the head area
- helmet SNELL 90, 95 or SFI 31.1, 31.2, 41.1, 41.2 or BSI BS 6658-85 Type A (or newer) (not kidding on the "BS")
- neck brace
- safety loop on drive shaft
- external power switch (also required for cars w/ battery in trunk) (hand me the remote control, please )
- FIA or SFI approved jacket and pants (!)
- 5 point seat belt

Oh, and by the way - no bottle warmer for N2O bottles permitted! Also, a purge valve is required!

And by the way, all of these requirements are for ET class ... wanna know what PR isn't allowed to use/have?

- no nitrous
- no slicks
- nothing that's not in the registration papers
- no stripped interior
- working cat. conv. for cars newer than '87
- working lights (no missing headlights allowed!)
- no racing fuel

All of this is straight from the DMSB rulebook, which is adopted from the FIA rules ...

More coming ...

Hm ... thinking ... does anybody come to mind that might have a problem with those requirements???

should be on any part that can come into contact with the body. Also can thin wall tubing be used, or is it a certified (stamped on the left passenger side door bar) cage? Verts can get by with just a roll bar???!!



should be anycar running faster than 13.99



rriiiigghhht???!!!



should be anycar, but 13.99 faster for sure



actually a external battery disconnect, but where would you put it if you hadnt relocated the battery?




1 layer, 2, 3...??? one layer gives you 0-7secs of protection before 3rd degree sets in BTW. If this is required, what about the onboard fire suppression/full face helmets/shoes???!!!!



just any 'ol 5point, or within 3 years of certification SFI belts?



and the thought process for no heater was..........? BTW, do you mean a blow down tube if the bottle is mounted in the same compartment (not seperated by a wall) as the driver? The bottle already comes with pressure disks that blow out if pressure gets to high.



Basically as the factory delivered it, with the exception of DR's. Not in the registration, does that mean, stock gears/CAI/exhaust/shifter/ignition/emblems???? You should have alot of cars that qualify for that.

Dont mean to flame your post, but that is some ridiculos tech, and its full of loop holes, and things that just dont make good sense.

I guess the idea here was just to give a quick rundown of points that were more or less (rather more than less) not complied with during this year's runs ... there are a lot of details to these regulations, check the DMSB pages for about 200 pages of them ...

I think I would like to check out this thing. Where/what is DMSB? Are they modeled after NHRA IHRA, or NMCA rules? Suppose I can figure that out when I read it.

Thanks

DeutscherMotorSportBund for Germany
Equivalent of NHRA in USA
both under FIA, where both get their international regulations ... http://www.dmsb.de

sorry, but if we are racing in germany on german race tracks with german authorities approving and german insurance coverage then technically the german rule book applies, I know there are many open questions which I try to find the answers for myself...

They may both be under FIA, but if they are than the Germans have added a lot of rules that the FIA doesn't require. As far as being similar to NHRA or IHRA, there is really no comparison. Even a lot of the Germans couldn't comply with those rules. If that is the kind of drag racing you want to do, you will eliminate a lot of people. I can understand the problem with the insurance and there may not be a way around it. But I think it would be better if you can find a way around it. I really don't know what rules the FIA has regarding the drag racing, but I do know that NHRA is the grandfather of drag racing. Wally Parks started the organized drag racing party. It is an American sport. Europe was where Grand Prix racing started, but US is the home of NASCAR and Drag Racing. Hopefully you will be able to figure a way around the problems.

Jerry

LOL, I went to the site, and it sure is a pretty site in german .

They may be the german equivalent to the NHRA/IHRA but the rules are alittle out there.

By the above rules there might be 5 people on this site that would pass tech.

Well, if I remember some of the points listed above correctly, they are in the NHRA rules, too ... point being they have just not been enforced during the OSL runs to date ...

I don't think anybody is wanting to elimnate anybody, but we are talking about some fast cars here ... heck, 135mph trap speed or lower than 10s isn't that easy to get into! Do you realize that at the OSL runs, we only had like a hand full of cars going that fast? I know on the second event, there were exactly three ... two of which (semi)professional drag-beetles, and Bruce ... and the beetles were (AFAIK) pretty much up to specs, as they are running other drag events and would be sent home during tech inspection if they weren't ...
On the other hand, for cars that can't compete in the PR class due to the requirements listed above - they can run in the ET class without a problem - nitrous allowed, stripped interior allowed, etc ... so where's the "eliminating"?

Forget about insurance - what about safety? Can you imagine what would happen to an F-Body - or any car for that matter - that has a tire to blow while crossing the 1/4 mark @ 140mph and start rolling? Do you actually think a regular seat belt would hold the driver securely fastened to the seat? Or the roof withstand the impact? Sure, people drive faster than that on the highway. Without helmet, no rollbar required, a.s.o. ...

No. As I said, these things do not apply until you do some serious speed, and whoever has the money to mod a car up to those speeds can and should afford a couple extra bucks ... heck, where's the problem? The only real expensive thing on the list is the rollbar, followed by the 5 point seat belt I recon ... are you going to tell me somebody is dropping - say - 15 grand in motor and mods, and won't pay another grand (max I recon - please correct me if I'm way off) for a few safety features?


While drag racing may have originated in the US, we are in Germany - if anything ever happens during a racing event, even if not the organizers' fault, they will be responsible and no doubt in deep sh@t if they can not prove they followed the rules and regulations that are binding for Germany, and those are the DMSB rules!

One final note - those rules are for races - test&tune runs can have other rules set up ... but to a certain degree, I do not think it would be a good idea to drop most of the safety features for cars that are that fast ...

What is the difference between PR and ET?

In short, PR (Public Racers) are stock street cars ... ET will then cover the rest, like cars that are faster than 10s, or cars that are modded ... see the examples above ...

Got it, so I would be ET. Thanks Garry.

just because I love beating a dead horse

The only thing that stood out to me in the post (couldnt read the site:( ) is that it almost looked like random rules picked because they looked smart, but not in relation to the speed/type of car.

The loop,cage,belts are a super idea, but the speed requirements are way off. Also, if seatbelts (5pt) are required, does it go into rating/certification/hook up points/hardware used? In other words, it may look the part, but you'll still be just as dead only looking like your a dead race car driver.

The nitrous rules are, not to put a fine point on it, bull$hit.

Are there any requirements for a scatter shield? Especially on the "10" second cars? If not, then great, if there are, then NO manual Fbody is gonna pass, cuz they dont make one for a T56. But hey, its only both your feet from the ankle down, and possibly the person next to you looses a face.

What kind of liscensing requirement are there? Any? I just went to a 9sec lic test (not for me) and that is quite a procedure.

Im not trying to put the full court press on squirrel or garry, but unless all you guys have the rules wrote out in some form that you can completly understand, there are gonna be alot of disappointed people.

I also understand that the FIA is the german version of a US sanctioning body, but its about as familiar as the Monster truck racing and Horse racing rule books. About the only thing they agree on is its a form of racing. So it would really pay to understand what was required of you completly.

To start off with - don't get anybody wrong, Silke (or me) didn't make these rules up, they are straight from the DMSB book ... while some of the rules and regulations make perfect sense, others aren't necessarily that easy to understand (some maybe not at all). The point is - if anybody is holding races in Germany, they will have to stick to those rules, as they are binding for any german race event!

Random - not really, but the points that are the difference in a "regular" ET car and one that goes 135mph/10s or faster ...
Also - the 135mph trap speed also appears at different places in the NHRA rules (don't have them, but found a couple revisions on their website for the 2002 rules, e.g.: "Roll cage mandatory in convertibles running 10.99 or quicker, or exceeding 135 mph" - therefore, I suspect the same classification exists, putting any car running 135 trap speed in the below-10s class ... and, looking at the list at http://www.nhra.com/tech_specs/ETQuickRef.html, it appears that the same requirements exist that are listed in the DMSB rules, like e.g. the electric cutoff, neck collar, race licence(!), protective clothing, etc. .. so - why are you complaining about the GERMAN race ass., when even the NHRA from the drag racing mother land USA is requiring each and every car to have the same features????


So, apart from DMSB, NHRA and FIA are also way off?


Here's an excerpt from the FIA rules ... same as the DMSB, just in english ...
---
10.5 DRIVER RESTRAINT SYSTEMS
A quick-release, 3-inch (7.6 cm) driver restraint system meeting
SFI Spec 16.1 is mandatory in all cars in competition required by
the rules to have a roll bar or a roll cage (Permitted in all other
classes.). Driver restraint system must be clearly labeled as
meeting SFI Spec 16.1 and be dated by manufacturer. System
must be updated at two-year intervals from date of manufacture.
All seat belt and shoulder harness hardware must be originally
designed to be used with each other and produced by the same
manufacturer. For harness installation, see illustration
(Drawing 21). Cars using OEM or OEM-type seat may route
crotch strap in front of seat instead of through seat. Only those
units that release all five attach points in one motion are
permitted. When arm restraints are worn with a restraint system
that utilizes a "latch lever", a protective cover must be installed to
prevent arm restraint from accidentally releasing the latch lever.
Protective cover not required with 'duck bill' style latch lever. All
harness sections must be mounted to the frame, crossmember,
or reinforced mounting, and installed to limit driver's body travel
both upward and forward. Seat belts may not be wrapped around
lower frame rails.
Under no circumstances are bolts inserted through belt webbing
acceptable for mounting. Check manufacturer's instructions.

(Mounting points - check here: http://www.fia.com/Regle/DRAGSTER/DRAG10.HTM)

Taking into consideration that driving a car w/ N2O isn't permitted on ANY german road, why should PUBLIC RACERS, which are stock cars with only registered/licenced modifications be allowed to run it? They can start in ET class w/o any problems, it's allowed there. But NOT in PR ...


Yes, there are detailed descriptions on the books about what has to be there for the cars that are required to have them. Regulations refer to FIA rules, which are probably also used by NHRA as reference ...


The documents I've seen at the site just refer to the race licence, without any details ... maybe Silke can say something about that, she's had docs about getting the licence some time ago ...

All the requirements should be put up before any events ... OSL has most of the tech requirements adopted from NHRA rules, though not all that would be required by DMSB ... it will be up to OSL to check the requirements, but if OSL ever holds RACES (only T&T were held at Bitburg this year), the requirements WILL HAVE TO be according DMSB ... at least for races on german ground ...

No, FIA is the world wide car racing federation, the HEAD of ANY national/regional racing assoc. As such, THEY set the standards, that can be extended by organisations like NHRA or DMSB ... still, the basic requirements have to be adhered to ...
Oh, and anybody who still believes DMSB is just putting crap in their rules, check this FIA document ... after you have, I rest my case ... you will find each and every rule listed above for 135mph cars in there ... http://www.fia.com/Regle/DRAGSTER/DR02-A.pdf

LOL, whoa up there buckaroo

The reason the speed are way off, is because according to the NHRA rules

If you have a vert running faster than 13.99 he will have a roll bar.

If you have a car running faster than 13.99 he will have a drive shaft loop

If you have a car running faster than 13.99 he will have a helmet.

If you have a car running 20's or faster, and has relocated the battery, he will have a battery disconnect.

and as a final muse. The FIA is far from a worldwide organization as far as the be all, do all in motorsports.

Now, count to 10 and look at what my point was, I hope it was clear. The rules are a GREAT thing, and safety is paramount, BUT to lump every single car into the top class is utterly stupid, and shows alot of misguided thoughts in the FIA and OSL, regardless of the safety weenies crying that there will be blood scattered up and down the 1320.

I'm not doubting/attacking you (garry) or the squirrel thing ( ), I'm just making my observation.

The whole speed - 135mph and ET - 10secs is supposed to be mutually exclusive. If your running 135, then your deep in the 10's and vice versa.

I'm done making problems now . Go enjoy your races...

Not necessarily ... Bruce ran a 10.50 or something like that, with a trap speed of 137 ... no traction at the beginning, but a hell of a ride at the end ... NHRA/FIA/DMSB are just covering their bases, saying that EITHER 10s or faster, OR 135mph will require the improved security features ... again, don't complain to anybody here, complain to FIA ... they set the standards both DMSB and NHRA use ...

[quote
Not necessarily ... Bruce ran a 10.50 or something like that, with a trap speed of 137 ... no traction at the beginning, but a hell of a ride at the end [/quote]

ouch, ouch, ouch . Was it a 10????? or a 11

Bruce knows he shouldnt be trapping that fast, with that time, now dontcha bruce?

Gotcha Garry, and I think that is why its a speed/time rule. Turbo cars trap much faster speeds than NA, and they had to have a catch all.


Cheers
Rob

Yup, right, he was only in the 11's!!

*LOL*
are you all done with fighting?
So when we run Test and Tune we will get away with a lot more.
Except a few things, like the helmet, I really would like to stick to, no matter how slow the car is.
I was not allowed to drive the quarter mile without helmet with my 19 second stock Corolla! in Drachten. And Drachten is in the Netherlands, not in Germany.

Basically this rules say nothing but, if your car is stock you may go as it is... if you are modding the hell out of it, you better watch your investments beeing safety proof... which makes sence, you should not just put anything on your car making it go faster and endangering you and your beloved ones without making sure everything is
tested and approved.
Since we all after the race pack our friends, kids, dogs in the car and drive down the Autobahn...

I guess I should not have gave you a ride in the Hawk Silke!!!!
Here are my thoughts I agree with safety. Now here is reality sounds like you will not have very many racers at your event.
Please post the rules and make a couple decisions and I will let you know if I will be attending.
BTW I do not have a fahrzug breif nor do I plan to get one. Not required for US forces serving overseas. So if that is what it takes to public race then I will be staying home.