F-Body Europe

I would reccomend for your shoot out in addition the brackets trophies for for the Grudge runs
Fastest Mustang
Fastest F body
King of the Street

You just want to be sure to get a trophy, don't you? I for one, would be very surprised if another fbody beat you.

Well, I don't expect to see too many faster streetable/street legal F-Bodies than Bruce ... trailer cars, yes. Lighter cars (like, Beetles etc.) - probably. But monsters like a 4th gen ... probably not in Germany ...

ok so with double hp he pays double fee and I get the trophy with
'superhawk' already stenciled in J/K

Never called it a SuperHawk but that is a good one. No not trying to get a trophy (already got a couple) would rather have $$$ but dont wanna be a begger. I mean the Grudges rock with no way to show who is the quickest street car and you could even line us up by timeslips and force the issue I think it would be kewl and we leave Bitburg knowing where we stand you could make it to say 100 in a and the Brackets suck all I do is sandbag and end up loosing.

ok we will have the fastest of the Mighty's against the fastest of the Fbodies in the "Saturday night race".
Let me work out something.

Recon we also could need a couple classes ... V6, V8, N/A, Modified ...

Now that is what I am talking about you could even invite the I4 Imports or domestic German cars and go by the # of Cylinders it is Bottom line grudgeing is 100 X better than brackets just make groups just my two cents.

Bruce, you just can't go consistent, that's your problem ... als you can go is d@mn fast

Rule of thumb is I just beat the guy I am racing and it is 100X easier during grudge runs

now how you plan to do this ???
I see me running cross the parking lot to find the cars together you want to run together...
Is difficult enough with just 2 or 3 bracket groups...

Now what you CAN do is what the Beetles are doing:
They get together themselves and arrange inside their group who is racing whom and they just will get the complete listings with runs and line up their winners.

Just make a schedule/ program and pass it out when the show up done deal I have a problem finding people to race and I thought a shoot out was to race mustang VS fbody?

Grudge runs rule! You get to see who really wins, AND you also get to see your time slip! I think most people just want to know what their times are, and aren't so concerned with winning or being consistent. That is all bracket racing is, being consistent. It really doesn't prove anything in my opinion!

Finally somebody agrees thanks Jack. Brackets suck grudge rules that means faster car wins. BTW it really sucks loosing to a red toyoto carrolla(just a example) that got a 5 second head start. we could still do brackets Sunday afternoon but say Saturday night run what you brung and line them up. Award the quickest car single elimination who cares the quickest car wins you can break it down in groups I4 V6,V8, and Modified/ King/street you are dealing with gear heads everybody tries to make there car quicker. If I run a 13 and then run a 11 I have a 11 second car. Everybody is trying to run faster not the same that is boring even for the spectatators. you hear it all the time he lost because of the handicap.

Bruce, had you come to Bitburg more often, you'd know that we always ran a whole day and a half as heads-up ... only did bracket for 2-3 hours for the trophies ... usually Sundays from noon or so ...

I've always thought that way- I just don't want to argue with anyone. I think your idea is good. Maybe we should take a poll, but I don't think the majority even likes racing brackets. I know the slower cars would like chances to get trophies too, but that's not really what drag racing is about in my opinion. It's about time slips and bragging rights. Grudge runs just give people more incentive to get mods!

Perfect Garry, I think Bruce will feel much better knowing that! I know I do.

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Heads up should be the priority and my opinion cash would be better than a trophy. But this stuck on brackets to be a winner in drag racing is not how I grew up it was fastest car wins starting line was with a baseball cap finish line was a pickup truck on the side of the road. Guess who won? (fastest car) (Brackets) That is a spin off to please the sponsors about donations oh I have none as of yet got a couple connections but that is about it. This would also give timeslips but I as everybody else should have left our cars stock to run more consistant is a bunch of bull. nobody does that look at the street class runing 10's in the states. I plan to skull drag some Mustangs @ your shootout however if I get skull drug then he came prepared. All I ask is to ask the participants and I will go with it but trying to get you on the right track.

Bruce,
we do the Brackets on Sunday afternoon to give everybody an EQUAL chance to win, no matter where they are coming from or what ride they can afford.
In example Germans can not mod half the way - they would loose street registration (why many use 'red' dealer or oldtimer tags on american muscle cars, but not everybody can afford such or has connections either), a 19 year old still in school is not having any money after filling up at the gas station but in Bracket he got the equal chance against the manager with his Porsche or Ferrari - and who would be more happy with a Trophy or $50 ? That is why I won't drop the Bracket Runs on Sunday.

I know what your point is: you invested all kinds of money in mods to make your street car faster - but here you don't get kredit for it!
Well, in the Mustang vs. Fbody shootout we will have the fastest Fbody and the fastest Mustang going for the 'King of the Road' in the Final
Heads Up on Saturday night as you suggested. The challenge was for speed, so we go for speed! and that will be the 'race of the weekend'
still I will have the Brackets on Sunday for all the other makes because the event is not all exclusive - everybody still can come.

Now to group max 20 mustangs and max 20 fbodies into groups -
would be easier if you all sit together on Saturday morning and figure that
one out how you all and the mustangs want to do this.
In my registration form I do not really ask/check for what is hidden under the hood - I just know a few average times of some of you

Price money - ask Garry what calculations I do for the events.
The airport raised the rent big time, think we will have to drop the return on the runway, saving 1600 Euro for two days but return on the taxiway. I hear the comments already on that one.
But even with saving the cost for the Runway the current setup cost about €6000,- for the weekend, and this is the bills only, not including my or Garrys travel cost or food for the volunteers, damage of tents, fences or asphalt they charged me last year etc.
Now with luckily 100 participants paying average €30,- you can do the math yourself ... (and this without major sponsoring, or yes, out of my bank account ).
In Groß-Dölln for the Drag Racers Training we use about the same setup
but prepare (glue) the track for the fast dragsters and bikes and each team pays €100/110 and the original calculated €10000,- are not going to be enough.
And all that is for "training or test and tune" only, if we did want to do a 'race' (what your suggested grudge race for the fastest is - bracket we get away with) we first never get approval in Bitburg by the officials, then in Germany we need concrete walls and/or permanent fencing (like in Luckau or Hockenheim, but Bitburg would not let us set up such) and there need to be the track approval done by DMSB and pay DMSB officials to be present - estimate total cost €60000,- or more.

Now what you CAN do is what i.e. a certain other Club is doing:
they bring their group - use our Test and Tune to get their timeslips,
they decide themselves who of their group is racing whom in the Grudge runs, they pay into their 'fund' the price money which they give later on 'their' inside club winner.
I do not know, I do not hold a race, but they have their "Club Cup"
and they like it because they say all it is about fun.

And then here is a hint for you where to go, this is what you want and here you can make your mod money:
Lausitzring, Coca Cola 'Burn' pays €10000,- for the fastest Street Car
on April 18, May 23, July 25, August 20, September 9

Here the info in German I will translate it later if needed - got to be
at grandparents for lunch in 3 minutes.

Coca-Cola steigt mit Energy-Drink burn als Titelsponsor beim "burn Viertelmeilen-Cup" ein.
10.000 Euro Preisgeld für die Gewinner der fünf Läufe zum burn Viertelmeilen-Cup 2004 - Anmeldung für Hobby-Rennfahrer läuft.

Der burn Viertelmeilen-Cup ist eine neue Veranstaltungsreihe am EuroSpeedway Lausitz, die in der Saison 2004 insgesamt fünf Läufe umfasst. Besonders attraktiv ist das Preisgeld in Höhe von 10.000 Euro, das den Gewinnern winkt. "Schrauber", "Tuner" und Sportwagen-Besitzer können sich unter 01805/880288 anmelden. Das Startgeld beträgt pro Lauf 15 Euro.

Es treten immer zwei Fahrzeuge im K.O.-System gegeneinander an
und der Schnellste qualifiziert sich für die nächste Runde.
Gestartet wird in vier Klassen: Klasse 1 bis 1850 ccm (max. 150 PS), Klasse 2 bis 3100 ccm (max. 240 PS), Klasse 3 ab 3101 ccm (ab 241 PS) und Klasse 4, einer offenen Klasse für Fahrzeuge ohne Straßenzulassung.

Jeder der sich für eine Teilnahme am burn Viertelmeilen-Cup interessiert und anmelden möchte, erhält weitere Informationen und die Anmeldeformulare unter der Info-Hotline 01805/880288. Das Startgeld beträgt pro Lauf 15 Euro. Wer sich direkt für alle fünf Läufe anmeldet zahlt nur 60 Euro

Wow, that's a lot of dough! I'm sure there will be plenty of competition for that one!