F-Body Europe

http://www.hqusareur.army.mil/news/rele ... tZones.pdf

We really need someone in a high position that is automotive oriented. If they make me install all emissions on a car that I paid to bring here WITHOUT informing me of the rules first....I will have problems. I feel an IG complaint coming on if that is the case.

Unless you have a Diesel engine, you shouldn't have too much of a problem ...
Also, it's not Usareur that caused this mess, but German laws ... IMHO, this new law is pretty close to disowning some (many?) people - if you live inside one of the zones, and aren't lucky enough to have a new-enough car to pass emission standards, you have an extra 3 months, after which you either get a new(er) car, or park it outside the zone ...

Needless to say that the value of cars not passing at least for a yellow tag has (or will) drop substantially ... so not only do you have to buy another car, but the (possibly perfectly fine) car you have is worth a lot less than it should ...

5 mos! Sorry Brain, I had to stick it to you.

Well, those Umwelt-stickers aren't too complicated to fake...

I will keep that in mind Ben.

Silas , you suck

Here is the scoop that I got today. Apparently, everyone needs to get an EPA sticker from the vehicle registration office. If you have a current registration all you have to do is go fill out an application and pick one up (no extra charge). The inspection procedures/requirements are currently unchanged, but it sounds as though the possibility exists for emissions checks in the future. If your vehicle is a 1992 or older you are unauthorized to drive in the cities listed as an EPA Zone. If you are caught doing so you will be fined.

I have now read the PDF and it's a bit strange:

The German rules say that ANY vehicle with a gasoline engine and a catalytic converter gets the green sticker, no matter what year it was registered.

Exactely... my 13year old non-diesel VW Passat (barely getting through EURO1 emission testing every 2 years..) will get the green sticker.
It's all about particulate matter / Feinstaub... and that's why really old Diesel cars won't get the sticker. And honestly, IMO that's not a bad thing.

My 17 year old Renault 5 also gets the green sticker.

so i need Pacesetters to hurry up with there catted Y-pipe then. Great more money I don't have .....

no offense, but i thought the Brits had stupid laws.......my paridise is slowly turnning bad for me.... maybe I should have gone to the states

You'll get the sticker based on what your car "would" normally have I suppose
Plus, not too many cities in Germany have those zones yet (I think 5 or so) ...

I guess this means that neither the Miata nor the Cherokee can get a sticker since they are older than 93, even though they both have cats. What a bunch of crap. If this article is correct, this is even worse than California. This environmental crap has gone to far, especially since it is an emotional issue, not a scientific one.

As mentioned before, German law permits any (even first generation) cat cars to get the sticker ... I reckon the places distributing them for you guys would have to also honor that regulation ... !?

When i first heard about the new law, i also thought it's plain crazy. Then i read the details.
Here they give you the sticker based on what emission standards your car would have in stock form, they don't do a test or so.
And as long as you don't own a really old Diesel your not in any trouble at all... gasoline engine and a cat = green sticker.

And that those small soot particles from Diesel engines cause cancer is a matter of fact, which got even worse thanks to high pressure injection and even smaller particles (filtering out the bigger ones and leaving ultra small ones behing in the "clean" diesels doesn't really help...), and in inner cities where emissions pille up, i fully understand that people don't want to inhale that crap.

In california / the states the entire Diesel hype -thank god- didn't go that far (thanks to lower gas prices and Diesel not beeing made artificially cheaper by the goverment), so they just don't need those laws...

EDIT: So its complete bullshit to give all cars after 1993 a green sticker and before 1993 no sticker at all. That's pure arbitrariness by the military, especially as most american cars meet higher emission standards as comparable european cars from the same year.

I just found something quite interesting on wikipedia (german):
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feinstaubverordnung#Alte_Kat-Pkw_und_Freigabe_durch_EU

The goverment forgot about the older cars (gas engines with the first cat converters on the market) in the first version of the law, which concerns most cars from the 80s, early 90s.
So they made an addition on 7th Dec which includes them for the green sticker. Probably the military used the old law and did't correct it yet..?

My theory is they did not originally "forget" it - they hoped they'd be able to pass that law without any complaints, resulting in a lot of people needing to buy new cars, even though the reason given does not apply to non-Diesel engines at all ... after complaints, they changed that and allowed for historical cars (07 tags too?) to enter the areas without needing a sticker ...

Chris and Garry, they didn't forget , If I read my german right , year of the car is immaterial basicially . It boils down to the emission numbers on the Fahrzeugbrief and then compare that to this document schadstoffgrppe

The year 93 and newer applies to visitors visiting Germany http://www.stadt-koeln.de/imperia/md/content/pdfdateien/pdf322/umweltzone/7.pdf

Man... yes, Roy, you're right... don't know what idiot made that up.

To trivialize all foreign cars before 1993 to have no catalytic converter and give them no sticker really is plain unfair,
especially to you guys that live 3yrs and more here, drive mostly the same cars as we do, and just because they are considered "foreign" by the law they don't do more pollution... i just don't get it.

For the most part , if an American vehicle has fuel injection , lambda, and cats and runs on petrol it will get the green sticker.
That is for Americans stationed over here working for the US.

What about aftermarket high flow cats? I have the Random Techs because my factory cats (really, I am serious) bit the dust from speed bumps and excessive high heat from racing. The Random Technologies system has only one cat and it is very small. looks like a lump on a snake when a pythin eats a rat or something. It smells clean and burns clean from what I can smell and see.

Ciao,
Nick

Nick,
I don't think you'll have any problems as they won't "re-check" you car if you apply for a sticker.

Ben