F-Body Europe

I have always wondered why nobody completed the 3800 engine with the turbo, like it came in the Grand National. Well this months issue of GMHTP finally showed me one.

V6ers' this is your package!! Probably the only power mod you would ever need, unless a 10.2 @ 130mph isnt fast enough!!!

There were some Turbo mods, but they (or the producers) went out of business, at least according to what I read on other message boards ...

How much does it go for? And with that kind of HP, there's probably quite a bit more than just the motor that you have to mod ... I could imagine the transmission and stuff around it will be the first you'll have to adapt ...

Of course this takes more than a K&N filter, but it looks like a pretty tame upgrade compared to some of them out there.

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/ar ... re02.shtml

Maybe I'm one of the few people left that respect/fear the GN above any car. Even if this was a 7500-10000 mod, that is about what a stroker costs in an LT1, and it sure as hell wont run a 10.2. Even most of the full on 355 blower motors dont run that and they cost around 15000.

Either way, this is a cool car done right IMO.

10.2/130 on a quarter? D@mn is that thing fast ... he'll even beat Bill Spano's V6 Revenge ... even with nitrous and lots of costly mods, he's only barely getting into the 13's ... and that Turbo is almost stock all through ... Hey, I want a price tag for that mod ... Boy, sure would like to have such a beast under my hood and take out _all_ of them loud-mouth ricers ...

Gentlemen, i've beaten this horse to death and it's a NO GO.
Why, well the 3800 found in the Fbody shares the thermostat with the GN buick 3800 and that's about it !
NOTHING IS THE SAME !
So you are looking at cranks, heads, manifolds, rods, cam's, computer, wiring, oilpump, oilpan, intake, etc. etc.

The 3800 is closer to the Lt-1 than it's to the GN/Turbo Trans am 3800 Turbo, for real.

There's this guy (Stefan Dunheim) who learned it the hard way and has spend about $20.000 on his 3800 (Firebird) to make take his Intercooled ATI blower and i still haven't seen proper Dyno sheets to back up the Claimed HP.
Same goes for MR. Spano and some other jokers that claim 12 secs in their V6.

The only way to go is to buy a GN package from Kenny Bell and put it in, but i think that swapping the 6 for an Lt-1 or even an LS1 would be a LOT cheaper and A LOT easier.
Ofcourse with enough $$$$$$$$ everything is possible.

There is a nice Powerdyne blower package for the V6 so i'd opt for that if i had the 3800.
Let's face it, the V6 simply is the red headed stepchild and the aftermarket is not really interested. The V6 can be made REALLY fast but it's just NOT worth the money.
I found out the hard way

Sergio, you are by far more knowledgeable with this than I am, but there is one part of your last post I dont understand.

It may be easier and cheaper to swap a LT1 or LS1 into a V6 car than do the turbo 3800, but after you get that LT1 or LS1 in there and running, you would still have to find the money to mod either motor to run anywhere near comparable times.

If a person wanted the balls out fastest car, its either that, or a 396/409 with hella boost, about a 250hp hit of squeeze, and cubic dollars.

This of course is just talk, because either motor from start to finish is going to be expensive.

cheers
Rob

Your right Rob but a Fast Lt-1 that will run for instance mid 11's can be achieved with about $4000 on mods.
You can pick up a complete Lt-1 in the USA for $1500 and a 6 speed will run you about $1000.

Now the Buick turbo engine complete is about $7500 and i'm not talking about the transmission. Mind you that a stock engine runs 13's ! In order to make it run 11's it's not just a matter of using a bleed valve on the turbo waste gate like most want to let you believe but your looking at a new (bigger) turbo, better intercooling, etc. etc.
But what about the bill for just having that engine fit in the engine bay properly and make it run with all accs ?
It's not like the Lt-1 that will have to fit and work at a point as the V6 car is basicly the same as the Z28.
Expect to be really creative with plumbing, bracketry, engine mounts, etc with the GN engine.
Hell, we don't even know if the turbo isn't gonna bottom out or for instance conflict with a strut tower.
Get my point ?

I agree that it would be something REALLY special that GN engine but it's just too damn expensive and a S**T load of work is invloved.

Hey they ever make a turbo like that for the 3.4L? Just wondering.

RT1

Nope, if you have to believe the stories from people there are like 300 turbo/supercharged 3.4's out there but NONE so far were able to back it up with serious details and pics.
Keep in mind that the stock 160 hp 3.4 would be at 240 hp with a turbo in the BEST BEST BEST case sceneario (50 percent gain), so i think that would not make it worthwhile as the 3.4 could never keep that up for long.
Keep in mind that the 3.4 is a bored and stroked 2.8 so it's already performing to the best of it's ability.
Sure there is more HP to fetch from the 3.4 but don't think you can just put on a turbo and have an extremely fast car that will hold up for long.

It may sound harsch but the 3.4 is simply not worth modifying except for the small and easy stuff (pcm,intake, exhaust, wires, pulley, thermostat).
You simply don't get your $$$$$ worth by adding custom made chargers that will set you back at least 4 grand as there is NO kit available so it would have to be a custom job.

Sergio... That wasn't harsh that is called reality. That is what I was thinking anyway. I'm just gonna keep on keeping on.

RT1

Glad to see that you agree. There are so many posers that claim 12's and have so called custom Twin turbo kits and Supercharger setups but when the going gets tough they can't back it up with a single picture or serious info.
They just add a charger and BOOOM 300 hp from that 3.4 !
Sure, i wonder what they are smokin'.

Look, that 3.4 is not a bad engine, it's VERY reliable, gets decent gas mileage and even sounds decent, BUT fast it's not and that's what we need with these 3800 pound cars.

Knock on wood,

You all might want to find out the TRUTH at http://www.firebirdv6.com .

I say forget about the wimpy V6, why waste the money swapping in a LT1 or LS1...if you're gonna do it, do it right...502 CI Fuel Injected Crate Motor backed by a built TH400!!! I did some research for my 95 earlier and this can be done for about 16 to 18K by AS&M probably much cheaper if you do it yourself.

Hey sergio, there are 12 second v6's!!!!!!!
Right here!!!!!!
Doubt it?
Go to http://www.firebirdv6.com
There is no grand nat motor in here!!!!
3800 series 2

I take it your James Dowles?.

I went to the site, and yours is the only one running 12's that is listed in the timeslip sections. To tell you the truth, I never bothered finding out, but there are alot more V6 nuts out there than I thought. Knocking 3 secs at minimum off stock times is pretty damn impressive. If the LS1's could do that, they would be running 5's!!!

Just goes to show you what a well tuned NO2 motor can do.

Good job

Rob

Thanks.
First time to the track was a 16.6
I'm at a 12.8 now.
It's fun hanging out with all my f body buds.
I wanted something different but never intended on going this fast with it. It was something told hold me over while i finished my chevelle
thanks again

while this subject may be dead I have something to add...


The ONLY difference between the TTA(Turbo Trans Am) and the GNX (Turbo Grand National) was the heads and turbo placement. Otherwise they motors were identical.

Yup, but that engine is NOTHING like the 3800 Buick you now find in the V6 Fbodies !


Sergio