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[ 18 posts ] |
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Robert13p3h
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Post subject: in case you havent seen it. Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2001 7:58 am |
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Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2002 10:10 pm Posts: 922
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I have always wondered why nobody completed the 3800 engine with the turbo, like it came in the Grand National. Well this months issue of GMHTP finally showed me one.
V6ers' this is your package!! Probably the only power mod you would ever need, unless a 10.2 @ 130mph isnt fast enough!!!
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Garry
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2001 12:11 pm |
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Joined: Sat May 26, 2001 9:59 pm Posts: 7823 Location: Bad Hersfeld, Germany
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Quote: I have always wondered why nobody completed the 3800 engine with the turbo, like it came in the Grand National. There were some Turbo mods, but they (or the producers) went out of business, at least according to what I read on other message boards ... Quote: V6ers' this is your package!! Probably the only power mod you would ever need, unless a 10.2 @ 130mph isnt fast enough!!!
How much does it go for? And with that kind of HP, there's probably quite a bit more than just the motor that you have to mod ... I could imagine the transmission and stuff around it will be the first you'll have to adapt ...
_________________ Garry Glendown * '99 Firehawk Convertible
"Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you." "Speed doesn't kill - suddenly becoming stationary on the other hand ..."
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Robert13p3h
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Post subject: ... Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2001 7:45 pm |
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Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2002 10:10 pm Posts: 922
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Of course this takes more than a K&N filter, but it looks like a pretty tame upgrade compared to some of them out there.
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/ar ... re02.shtml
Maybe I'm one of the few people left that respect/fear the GN above any car. Even if this was a 7500-10000 mod, that is about what a stroker costs in an LT1, and it sure as hell wont run a 10.2. Even most of the full on 355 blower motors dont run that and they cost around 15000.
Either way, this is a cool car done right IMO.
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Garry
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2001 9:55 pm |
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Joined: Sat May 26, 2001 9:59 pm Posts: 7823 Location: Bad Hersfeld, Germany
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10.2/130 on a quarter? D@mn is that thing fast ... he'll even beat Bill Spano's V6 Revenge ... even with nitrous and lots of costly mods, he's only barely getting into the 13's ... and that Turbo is almost stock all through ... Hey, I want a price tag for that mod ... Boy, sure would like to have such a beast under my hood and take out _all_ of them loud-mouth ricers ...
_________________ Garry Glendown * '99 Firehawk Convertible
"Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you." "Speed doesn't kill - suddenly becoming stationary on the other hand ..."
Last edited by Garry on Sun Jul 01, 2001 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sergio-Casino
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2001 10:01 pm |
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Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 8:49 am Posts: 334 Location: Den Helder, Holland
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Gentlemen, i've beaten this horse to death and it's a NO GO.
Why, well the 3800 found in the Fbody shares the thermostat with the GN buick 3800 and that's about it !
NOTHING IS THE SAME !
So you are looking at cranks, heads, manifolds, rods, cam's, computer, wiring, oilpump, oilpan, intake, etc. etc.
The 3800 is closer to the Lt-1 than it's to the GN/Turbo Trans am 3800 Turbo, for real.
There's this guy (Stefan Dunheim) who learned it the hard way and has spend about $20.000 on his 3800 (Firebird) to make take his Intercooled ATI blower and i still haven't seen proper Dyno sheets to back up the Claimed HP.
Same goes for MR. Spano and some other jokers that claim 12 secs in their V6.
The only way to go is to buy a GN package from Kenny Bell and put it in, but i think that swapping the 6 for an Lt-1 or even an LS1 would be a LOT cheaper and A LOT easier.
Ofcourse with enough $$$$$$$$ everything is possible.
There is a nice Powerdyne blower package for the V6 so i'd opt for that if i had the 3800.
Let's face it, the V6 simply is the red headed stepchild and the aftermarket is not really interested. The V6 can be made REALLY fast but it's just NOT worth the money.
I found out the hard way
_________________ Sergio
95 'Money Pit' Camaro 3.4 M5 .. Modded LT-1 this summer (2005) !!
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Robert13p3h
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Post subject: I'll be the devils advocate here Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2001 2:25 am |
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Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2002 10:10 pm Posts: 922
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Sergio, you are by far more knowledgeable with this than I am, but there is one part of your last post I dont understand.
It may be easier and cheaper to swap a LT1 or LS1 into a V6 car than do the turbo 3800, but after you get that LT1 or LS1 in there and running, you would still have to find the money to mod either motor to run anywhere near comparable times.
If a person wanted the balls out fastest car, its either that, or a 396/409 with hella boost, about a 250hp hit of squeeze, and cubic dollars.
This of course is just talk, because either motor from start to finish is going to be expensive.
cheers
Rob
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Sergio-Casino
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2001 9:07 am |
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Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 8:49 am Posts: 334 Location: Den Helder, Holland
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Your right Rob but a Fast Lt-1 that will run for instance mid 11's can be achieved with about $4000 on mods.
You can pick up a complete Lt-1 in the USA for $1500 and a 6 speed will run you about $1000.
Now the Buick turbo engine complete is about $7500 and i'm not talking about the transmission. Mind you that a stock engine runs 13's ! In order to make it run 11's it's not just a matter of using a bleed valve on the turbo waste gate like most want to let you believe but your looking at a new (bigger) turbo, better intercooling, etc. etc.
But what about the bill for just having that engine fit in the engine bay properly and make it run with all accs ?
It's not like the Lt-1 that will have to fit and work at a point as the V6 car is basicly the same as the Z28.
Expect to be really creative with plumbing, bracketry, engine mounts, etc with the GN engine.
Hell, we don't even know if the turbo isn't gonna bottom out or for instance conflict with a strut tower.
Get my point ?
I agree that it would be something REALLY special that GN engine but it's just too damn expensive and a S**T load of work is invloved.
_________________ Sergio
95 'Money Pit' Camaro 3.4 M5 .. Modded LT-1 this summer (2005) !!
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RT1
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Post subject: Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2001 8:04 pm |
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Joined: Mon May 28, 2001 7:46 pm Posts: 1091 Location: El Paso, TX
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Hey they ever make a turbo like that for the 3.4L? Just wondering.
RT1
_________________ RT1 -
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Sergio-Casino
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2001 12:15 pm |
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Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 8:49 am Posts: 334 Location: Den Helder, Holland
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Nope, if you have to believe the stories from people there are like 300 turbo/supercharged 3.4's out there but NONE so far were able to back it up with serious details and pics.
Keep in mind that the stock 160 hp 3.4 would be at 240 hp with a turbo in the BEST BEST BEST case sceneario (50 percent gain), so i think that would not make it worthwhile as the 3.4 could never keep that up for long.
Keep in mind that the 3.4 is a bored and stroked 2.8 so it's already performing to the best of it's ability.
Sure there is more HP to fetch from the 3.4 but don't think you can just put on a turbo and have an extremely fast car that will hold up for long.
It may sound harsch but the 3.4 is simply not worth modifying except for the small and easy stuff (pcm,intake, exhaust, wires, pulley, thermostat).
You simply don't get your $$$$$ worth by adding custom made chargers that will set you back at least 4 grand as there is NO kit available so it would have to be a custom job.
_________________ Sergio
95 'Money Pit' Camaro 3.4 M5 .. Modded LT-1 this summer (2005) !!
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RT1
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Post subject: Not harsh... Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2001 9:20 pm |
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Joined: Mon May 28, 2001 7:46 pm Posts: 1091 Location: El Paso, TX
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Sergio... That wasn't harsh that is called reality. That is what I was thinking anyway. I'm just gonna keep on keeping on.
RT1
_________________ RT1 -
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Sergio-Casino
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2001 10:19 pm |
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Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 8:49 am Posts: 334 Location: Den Helder, Holland
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Glad to see that you agree. There are so many posers that claim 12's and have so called custom Twin turbo kits and Supercharger setups but when the going gets tough they can't back it up with a single picture or serious info.
They just add a charger and BOOOM 300 hp from that 3.4 !
Sure, i wonder what they are smokin'.
Look, that 3.4 is not a bad engine, it's VERY reliable, gets decent gas mileage and even sounds decent, BUT fast it's not and that's what we need with these 3800 pound cars.
Knock on wood,
_________________ Sergio
95 'Money Pit' Camaro 3.4 M5 .. Modded LT-1 this summer (2005) !!
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FirebirdGT
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2001 6:10 pm |
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Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2001 6:07 pm Posts: 1 Location: Milwaukee, WI, USA
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Quote: There's this guy (Stefan Dunheim) who learned it the hard way and has spend about $20.000 on his 3800 (Firebird) to make take his Intercooled ATI blower and i still haven't seen proper Dyno sheets to back up the Claimed HP. Same goes for MR. Spano and some other jokers that claim 12 secs in their V6.
You all might want to find out the TRUTH at http://www.firebirdv6.com .
_________________ Robert
1996 Black Firebird GT
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TheHylandr
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2001 6:21 pm |
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Joined: Mon May 28, 2001 3:42 am Posts: 464 Location: Florida
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I say forget about the wimpy V6, why waste the money swapping in a LT1 or LS1...if you're gonna do it, do it right...502 CI Fuel Injected Crate Motor backed by a built TH400!!! I did some research for my 95 earlier and this can be done for about 16 to 18K by AS&M probably much cheaper if you do it yourself.
_________________ -- Jamey --
2005 Caddy CTS-V
2004 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4
2003 Yamaha Raptor
2005 Honda 300EX
2005 Honda Rincon
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12secondv6
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2001 6:36 pm |
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Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2001 6:34 pm Posts: 5 Location: Westwood, NJ
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Hey sergio, there are 12 second v6's!!!!!!!
Right here!!!!!!
Doubt it?
Go to http://www.firebirdv6.com
There is no grand nat motor in here!!!!
3800 series 2
_________________ 97 3.8 v6 bird
best nos et 12.821
best nos mph 105.83
best n/a et 14.879
best n/a mph 91.66
best 60 ft 1.731 with 323 gears and a stock converter!!!!
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Robert13p3h
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2001 4:09 am |
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Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2002 10:10 pm Posts: 922
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I take it your James Dowles?.
I went to the site, and yours is the only one running 12's that is listed in the timeslip sections. To tell you the truth, I never bothered finding out, but there are alot more V6 nuts out there than I thought. Knocking 3 secs at minimum off stock times is pretty damn impressive. If the LS1's could do that, they would be running 5's!!!
Just goes to show you what a well tuned NO2 motor can do.
Good job
Rob
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12secondv6
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2001 5:15 pm |
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Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2001 6:34 pm Posts: 5 Location: Westwood, NJ
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Thanks.
First time to the track was a 16.6
I'm at a 12.8 now.
It's fun hanging out with all my f body buds.
I wanted something different but never intended on going this fast with it. It was something told hold me over while i finished my chevelle
thanks again
_________________ 97 3.8 v6 bird
best nos et 12.821
best nos mph 105.83
best n/a et 14.879
best n/a mph 91.66
best 60 ft 1.731 with 323 gears and a stock converter!!!!
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Camaro_hunter_d
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2002 1:03 am |
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Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2002 12:52 am Posts: 4 Location: Illinois USA
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while this subject may be dead I have something to add...
The ONLY difference between the TTA(Turbo Trans Am) and the GNX (Turbo Grand National) was the heads and turbo placement. Otherwise they motors were identical.
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Sergio-Casino
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2002 11:06 am |
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Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 8:49 am Posts: 334 Location: Den Helder, Holland
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Yup, but that engine is NOTHING like the 3800 Buick you now find in the V6 Fbodies !
Sergio
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