F-Body Europe

Who is the President & who started this club? Do any of you know? Do any of you know when or why? Why did you join FBE?

The point I'm getting at is....members have joined this club for the sake of racing whether it be 1/4, auto-x, or slalom.
It appears people have jumped on the bandwagon and have blinded by the glitter of it all vs the purpose of the club.

For those that don't know. FBE was founded for the sole purpose of like minded people to have a meeting place for the F-Body. US, German or other. People come overseas w/ nothing to look forward to IF their an FBody enthusiast. That's why this club was started. Look at the statement on this Board.

OSL is something entirely different and it seems people are combining the two. THEY are an entity all in itself. WE are a club! When we want to race or whatever we go to OSL for events and such. IF all you want to do is race then you should join OSL. You can still be a member of FBE just don't mix the 2 together thinking it is one.

So ask yourself again why did you join FBE?

This is not a rant but a clear observation of things that have I've come to notice.

Silas

Seems like just yesterday, some guy was in Korea talking to me and Jeff about shipping his car over to Europe, and getting togethor. Huh John?

Peace
Rob

I just think most people don't care enough about the club. I don't know why half the people joined; they don't come to meetings, they don't provide input to the board, they don't do squat!!! What I've noticed is that 90% of the members who have registered haven't done anything with the club. I mean, what the heck is the point of joining, and does there really have to be a race for someone to want to participate??

Oh well, I, like others, want this to be like the clubs in the states, where people look forward to meeting with one another, and just hanging out...

I tend to agree. When look at the things I have done with the club since I joined in, I see the same people at most all of our events. I'm not naming names, but it is a select few. But there are some who have had a rash with bad luck and their car is down. I don't blame those guys for obvious reasons. Don't get me wrong, these races are a lot of fun. The only thing is that when I joined, there wasn't really any races and I was cool with that.

I have not been with F-Body Europe (FBE) since the start, but I did join close to it.

WHAT I KNOW... is that in the beginning no one would come to "meets". I have seen my husband come home freezing from standing outside at a meet just talking. I know that without, Jack, John, and George, there would be no FBE. I know that when this club stated it was about the cars not the amount of people or press it got. It was about helping each other out. I have seen George help with 3 clutches, a full day project (giving of time is sometimes worth more than money because it is something people don’t have much of), stay out till all hours of the night working on our car to fix/clean/repair it for the next get together. He has been called in the middle on the night to come get people; we have been lent a car from a F-Body Europe member. This is FBE.

Like I said it is not about races, or the shows, at least for me. It is about getting together and helping each other out. George told me today that he had the most fun he had had in a long time talking with the guys who stopped by while John was putting in his headers.

MY OPINION: F-body Europe is a club of it's own. We can race with OSL just like we do with the Porsche club. I am by no means putting down OSL, yet I do feel like we, FBE, need to have a grasp on our club before we can help expand another.

Krystenna

O:SL is not a competing club, it's an initiative to have legal and affordable race events. I really don't understand why this is even an issue, some of the FBE members have decided to help Tony out with getting events going that benefit club members and other car enthusiasts alike. It's really got nothing to do with the club itself, but what's wrong with getting the word out through the club? Hell, I remember Silas himself being all exited about the future of the club after talking to Tony about O:SL in Hockenheim. As for trying to make the club grow by getting more publicity, what could be wrong with that? Are we an elite group now that don't care for outsiders? So what only 1 out of 10 members are actually active, that's still better than 0 out of 0. That's just my take on it, because this club wouldn't be if it wasn't for the members that were at some point recruited or made aware by other members. So why is there a concern?

Just to clear it up alittle more, (even though I'm not in Europe anymore). There was a group of people that went to the events togethor ie. Hockenheim, and got togethor, to make they're own events waaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy before there was a website(I got pics of the first meet somewhere, all 6 of us, 1000 bonus points if you can name them). OSL is after my time, but IMHO that should be something you go to as a club, instead of promoting thru your club.

If it was to be, it will, if it takes FBE to make OSL, then maybe it shouldnt be called OSL in the first place.

I said it before, and I'll talk doom again. As the military moves its people around, this club will fail or become something totally differant unless someone steps up with a plan, and the serious people support it.

Rob

My soapbox is getting wore out

I couldn't have said it better Rob. ChevyThunder. You are right I was excited about OSL and still am. However I'm not excited about the fact that it's becoming more important than FBE by it's own members when it should stand on it's own two legs. Do you even know how hard it was to get this club started in the 1st place? Pieces of paper on windshields and through the weather stripping for months until G made cards. Then it was email thru me to all members I still have everyone's email addy before the website kicked in full gear. If it wasn't for that we wouldn't be here trust me. Others have tried before and failed due to lack of patience and enthusiasm. So why should the sweat and tears for the founders be done in vain if all people see is OSL?
I was fine w/ 10 members showin up vs 100 members and only see 3. I've been to every meet w/out my car except for the last 3. That's what FBE is about dedication regardless if you have a car running or not.
And as usual you see the same people posting and that's fine w/ me too. I know who you are......FBE
Elite? You could say that but that is the choice of the people on this board.......see the posts above and who they are? People make things elite not the other way around. 10 vs 100 is the same if only a few participate.
Need I say more?

I just want to say thank you to those of you who started this club. I love FBE. I joined just before the Wuerzburg Car Show, and met a great bunch of people that day. Members drove from all over Europe. I was impressed with that, and it set an example. I have tried to live up to that ever since. I have been to countless car shows (ask the wife, she knows the exact # prolly), 'cuz Lord knows I don't need to be showing off my V6 Camaro. I just liked the conversation, and the beer. Racing is fun, but not the reason I joined. I will still race later, once the car is fixed, but would never loose sight of what I found, on that day in Wuerzburg.

I guess what I am tring to say is THANK YOU!

RT1

I do not want to step on anybodies toes here but here is my .02 cents I joined FBE to be apart of the group that I later met in wurzburg I have made several friends along the way and have a blast talking smack and creating controvesy This has nothing to do with racing. I am grateful to George for leaving a card on my window while he was down here @ school. I would like to think I am supporting both organizations for what they are. I really do not understand what the problem is?

Ok,
Here is my take on the whole situation. I will start with a brief history from my perspective. My history of FBE may not be the same as what John had said, but it is my history.

I purchased my Trans Am in September of 2000. I had always enjoyed F-bodies and had owned 1 in 1999. My neighbor, Jack helped talk me into getting another one. I did this despite having 2 children as I love the cars and there is sufficient room, you just have to know how to use it. Jack had told me that there was a car club, or a group of people that hang out together. I thought this sounded really cool. I was unable to hook up with any of these members, so Istarted posting on all of the forums like CZ28 and LS1.com. I was looking for other enthusiasts in the area as I had seen them everywhere, but never was given the chance to talk to them. I got the idea to start a website as a central meeting place for everyone to go. This started out as http://www.fbodyeurope.cz28.com. The site was plain and generic, but it served the purpose of allowing people to go and meet. This was later moved to http://www.fbodyeurope.f2s.com and later the current http://www.fbodyeurope.org. Regardless of the web address the purpose was still the same, a place for F-body enthusiasts young and old to gather and share stories and get advice as well as help.

I met up with John sometime around November 2000 at which time he explained to me that he had a club started and it was so many members and he was the president. At first I thought to myself, chill out I do not want to take over your club. We talked and I really got to like John and his ideas for the club. He explained to me that he had been putting post it notes and receipts with his email address on them on peoples cars trying to meet new people. I came up with the idea of business cards. This made it easy to put on peoples cars and spread the word. At out second meeting we passed out a bunch of these cards. It was obvious after that who the real enthusiasts were and who was just along for the ride. The enthusiasts being the ones who after a week had passed out 50 cards and wanted more. I think there are still some people with atleast half of the original stack of cards that I gave out that day. The 2nd meeting of tbe club was my first meeting, however it is when we decided what to call ourselves and what we wanted to do. It was very simple, we wanted to be friends and hang out together and shoot the "He said POOP". This type of club carried on for a few months. We would stand outside in the freezing cold and look at each others cars and share stories. I had so much fun. My wife who you all know was also enthusiastic about the club. She came out there with both of my daughters and stood in the cold so that she could learn more and show me support.

I was out surfing the internet one day and found a Bulletin Board program that I thought was cool, plus it was free. I decided what the hell I will give it a shot. I installed it and we started posting away. It worked well for a few months and then it went bezerk and we lost everything. I searched some more and found another program, which is the one that we are using now. I had the help of some guy in the states that I do not even know and he helped install the board and set it up. This was working great. Not to much later Garry showed up to the board. He started posting and advertising his computer programming skills. I was starting to have problems that were a little above my head, so I asked for help. He was very willing to help out. He fixed the problems that we where having and even made things that were working fine better, like the members page. He did all of this out of sheer love and enthusiasm for the club. We did but heads a few times with things like graphics. Graphics for F-body Europe have and hopefully always will be done by my wife Krystenna. This is something that was discussed when the club started and as long as I am a part of it will stay that way. She always makes graphics with many choices and allows the members to choose. I see nothing wrong with this. Garry was accepting and he left her graphics in place. He did however ask for new graphics to help with a new design that he was working on and she was glad to do them.

This now brings me to the members themselves. What is a member? What a member is to me is this: A member is a F-body enthusiast who is willing to come and hang out, lend a hand or wave and say hello to other members. A member is not something that is just on paper. I never expected everyone to be a posting fool like Jack or myself, but it does not take alot to check the board for current events or planned happenings. I get tired of people saying that they did not know about something. We have no membership fees or dues. It was something that we debated out in the cold last November. We decided that we would remain free as long as possible. If we needed something like webspace or such we would ask for donations. Fortunately we have not had to do this. I know that we would have had a few donations, but a certain few members would have had to foot the bill. We tried to do stickers and we had a graphic chosen, but no real commitment to buy them. I am sure no one person wanted to foot the bill for 200 stickers. This is the stuff that angers me. I believe like this, you sign up to be a member, you make as many meetings as you can, you help out fellow members and you have a nice day. All of this yeah I am a member, but I do not want to hang out with other members is BS. It should stop. I remember even someone telling me that if it cost money to join, count them out... What is that I mean, they did not even ask what the club was all about.......The Honda club has requirements to join and they pay fees. They go to Belgium to car shows, they have Jackets, hats and sweatshirts....... Think about it....

OSL and Fbody Europe....... This is a touchy subject and one that is often debated. Tony started OSL a few years ago to my knowledge. He has not been to succesful in getting it off the ground.. Most of the people I talked to in the car scene over here knew of Tony and his "Big Plans". It was kind of like a joke when I told people that there was going to be an event. Well Tony hooked up with FBE through Bruce and Garry. This somehow allowed OSL to get its foot in the door and get off the ground. Who was at the first race day in Sembach? I was as were alot of FBE members. The first day of racing went much smoother than the second. Why was that? I will tell you why, FBE. Thats right, FBE was the reason as we were the ones who came out on Saturday to help set up. We were the ones who made sure all that was needed was there. We were the ones who came out even without our cars (Jack) and helped wherever we could. We were the ones that cooked and sold food (Alicia). We were the ones that put flyers on every car and bulletin board we could find. That is why it went smoothly. The second event we pulled our hands out of the mix and let OSL do most of the work. The event still took place, but there were problems. Things like the location, and overall operation of the event. There is not a day that goes by when I do not bump into someone that says, hey that first event was great, but the second one was lame. I am sure you all know what went wrong. How are all those Hamburgers Dave? I never knew I could drink a case of Sprite or Mountain Dew..... Yep things went wrong, but you know what? We FBE are the ones that are being talked bad about. We are the ones that the Honda club is saying they can outdo. They are the ones who can plan an event and make sure everything goes smoothly. What sucks about this is the fact that I know we can to. If we run an event on out own, we will not have problems. This is why we need to steer clear of OSL.. OSL is a great idea, but it should be its own idea. It should be its own founders that plan and run events. We as FBE should just show up to participate. This is my take on the whole thing....


I leave Europe in February and plan to still remain an active part of the club through other members and the internet. I will be in Georgia where I have already met up with the local club and know of their events.. Do you know that they go on a cruise or meet every weekend? Yep and guess what, so does the Honda club over here. I understand that alot of the members of FBE are seperated by land, but how many members live close to another member? How many members are within a 1hr driving distance? How many members live in K-town? ...... When was the last meeting? Think about it...........

What happened George? That was a bit long anyway I know you would help anybody in the club if they asked. I lost your phone # could you send it?

Hm
I seem to recall something in the military called the 8 step decision making process , staff organization , operation orders, and a after action review. We in the military use these tools on adaily basis to sucessfully accomplish objectives and mission. These are the same tools used in sucessful civilian companies to conduct business.

Next ?
So if FBE wasn't involved , how did all the cash break out after the event was over?

The first race the money went to the Red Cross, and the second, I have no idea. I think OSL.

I really don`t understand your problems guys.Maybe because my english is not so good.But i think you guys got a problem with OSL you don´t need to go for it.Because thats the way i hear it.And money i mean Tony dring to do everything he can do i mean whe try to do our best job at the OSL races.And the money part i mean thats not our problem because Tony need to get some new stuff to for next year i mean everybody talk about they wanne drive the quartermile.Year but we need a cabel for the tree so whe can drive the quartermile.So i don´t know maybe i understand you guys wrong.When yes i hope somebody help me understand it.



Kindest Regards Michael

Lets slow down here some people are blowing everything out of control. I was not able to attend the second one but the first one was the bomb.

I didn't know there was a problem with the second one, except for the fact that I was picking up OTHER PEOPLE'S CIGARETTE BUTTS!!!

I thought it was fun, can someone tell me what went wrong. Why are people complaining, saying they could do better???

I thought the second races went pretty good. Except the fact I lost on the first race. It was a little slow in some areas but good in my opinion. My only problem with the event was the total lack of traction due to a dirty track. Whether we have races or not I will still show up

YEAH ME TOO!!!!!

I know we could sit on the sidelines and say we could do it better. That is why we need your input to make it better. I also knew trying to do another one without the time to apply lessons learned is a dangerous step. If you guys have sugestions to make the OSL program better let me know. I am just a member of FBE but I care about the club. I would like to facilitate racing events with OSL to give us a low buck oppurtunity to run our cars. Either way I plan to support both. FBE& OSL benifit from each other if it is done right. Now it is up to you guys if you want to be a host for the event. If you are going to be a host and support OSL then tell us what you want and we will make it happen. As far as any finger pointing I have not seen any other americans put on a racing event so if they think they can do better go for it. I may even attend to stomp some imports. Bracket is the only way to mix all cars. From the import guys I talked to they had a blast and are just like us except they drive Hondas and our cars are faster. FWIW I usually pay 250-350 DM to race in europe and equals 4-5 runs so bang for the buck is OSL. Please direct any sugestions/complaints about OSL to myself and not FBE. FBE just tell us how many events you want next year so we can plan it out profesionally and have a well organized event together. If you decide you do not want to Support/Host OSL let me know.