F-Body Europe

Here ya go Rob!! I guess you were right.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=600845901&r=0&t=0

Stock for stock, I do not see how anyone can compare the 2. Ford has been behind the curve for awhile. Sure you can mod the Cobra to take a Camaro, but with the right $$$ I can make my neon whoop a Cobra. It is anyones game when you start modding, but straight off of the showroom floor, it is GM's game at the present moment.

Ford dominated up until 1993, this is when the LT1 made Ford second place. Sure Ford has had a few R's that have been badass, but do we forget what GM has come up with?(ZL1) Ford I am sure will run away with the honors now as GM has thrown in the towel, but on the track where it counts, and I am sure that there are many stock for stock races going in GM's direction.


And the LT1's beat LS1's beat by Cobra comparison is bogus, the LT1's are a old and very researched engine that is still getting new advances in modding, so just think what a few years will do to the LS1..... Hell the LS1's are in the 9's NA and they are only 5yrs old. Give them a little time and people will be saying good things about them also.

When money is no factor, it is anyones game. Stock for Stock, give me my LS1 any day of the week.

Its official

http://www.bonforums.com/mustang/cobra_03brief012803.htm

Oh man there goes the neighbor hood.
Lets just hope when Ford says 390hp they mean 390 hp and not 350 hp. Remember the 98 320 hp = 280 or there abouts.

All I got to say is, the LS1 camaros are the greatest cars ever! Why would anyone buy anything else? You try and enlighten people on a new car and all hell brakes loose. That is funny. Maybe Rob should have posted this in the LT1 Tech section, that way he wouldn't have to answer to all the LS1 owners! You LS1 guys bring your cars down to South Florida. I bet you get a reality check the first night you are there! Mustangs are fast. Yeah stock for stock but who is? I just don't see why an LS1 comes with the "Big Head Package". Anyway, just thought I would talk $hit, I am sure I will hear about it but that is fine. Nothing unusual...lets here it. Mike

LOL, that is funny Mike. The fact is the topic was talking stock for stock. I own an LS1 and I know that the LS1 is not Golden. It is however faster than the Mustang GT or Cobra and the LT1 the way it came from the factory. That is all I am defending. When you start modding it is all about who has the bigger balls and deeper pockets.

I am sure that there are fast mustangs in South Florida. Maybe I will take a cruise down there to see them one day. I am also sure that there are quite a few in Georgia where I am going. I however do not care. I just want to get some track time and also I want to see the local 9second LS1's.

As far as the "Big Head" goes, it is easy to get with and LS1 overseas. I mean hell how many of the mean mustangs or LT1's make it over here? Not many, but how many mildly modded LS1's are here? Many...... So when you go and race at a place like Sembach and all that can compete is a non-street legal drag car it is easy to get a big head.

There are owners of all types, shapes and forms of cars that think they are invinceable. I mean how many times have you seen or heard of someone has "Blah, Blah, BLah" and then you ask them to race and they reach up their arse and spit out some excuse?

I am bored at work hence the rambling, but to sum it up: I bought my car because I like the look and the factory power. I modded my car because I wanted to go faster. I do not care who beats me, nor do I care who I beat. It is the ones who talk "He said POOP" that care, because it is those people who have the most to lose............

Mike
I personally like the LT1 better than Ford 4.6 engine. I think this is pretty funny though. As far as the big head package goes I remember when the LT1 guys talked all the s#i+ I was one of them also. Bottom line is we all like our cars and willing to talk smack and defend them. With that said GM's rule except for the new aztek.

Good points! Thank God I IM'd you in time. =) You guys are right though, stock for stock we all know the truth. I remember when George and I raced pretty much stock, once he got traction and caught up he started walking me. Thank goodness we ran out of road! I am ready for you know George! =) Anyway, be safe! Later, Mike

Lets explore this some more.


Why not? 320hp vs 320..340hp, V8 vs. V8, low 13's vs. low 13's (personally never seen a stock ls1 in the 12's yet, I know they exist, just not around here.)



That changed in 2001 when a Cobra actually started making 320hp. I can only look to the same people that got a LS1 to run a 12.89 that recently ran a Cobra vert to 13.4 and a coupe 13.2. Slower? sure, but you or I cant drive anywhere as well as Evan Smith. So the driver becomes a big time issue when these cars line up. As far as modding, put a SC'er on both cars and see how they stack up. DOHC 32V reving to 7k+ vs. Pushrod 16V reving to mid 6's (only mod being SC). NA to NA they both run in the 11's on the stock block/heads with just bolt-ons.



Actually the 93 cobra was underated big time, and put out within 10-15hp of the LT1. As far as one off's John Moss challenged Ford with the ZL1, and lost 3 straight races.



The LT1 only had 6 yrs of life also, 92 vette 93-97 Fbody. You also might want to check out just how fast the DOHC 4.6 has got in the modular motor shootouts (BTW the purse pays 50k for a season win, enough motivation for aftermarket support?) The 9sec runs for the LS1 and LT1 are impressive, but once again, I can give you a list as long as your arm how many (loosely termed street) cobras that are in the 9's and 8's.
Sadly, besides the vette, the only place a LS1 will live is in a truck. With zero company backed events (ie. SCCA, NHRA, IHRA or like the competition with its PRO 5.0, NMRA) and zero new F bodies with LS1's how many companies will continue developing engine parts? LGM already said they will make nothing more, DRM strickly vette, Lingenfelter same,) Its a $$$ game, and there wont be enough in it to justify research. Some of the vette stuff will cross over, but just how much, and at what cost?



GM chose to kill the Fbody years ago. With zero advertising, and zero competition support. As much as I hate to say it, if you dont drive a caddy, and aspire to win Le Mans they want nothing to do with you. I've never been brand blind loyal, but more the "if they build it, I will come". Like Roy said, the door swung the other way, GM grabbed it and slammed it shut, then Ford welded it closed.
Look at Deerborn's commitment: Roush cars, Saleen cars, new cobra, Mach 1, lightning and the re-invented GT40.
GM came to the fight with a Z06, a hotted up Cavalier or a S10 extreme. I'm not trying to be a Ford advertiser, but sometimes the truth is a painful pill to swallow. I never warmed up to the redesigned Fbody in 98, so maybe that is why I'm so easily swayed/BS'ed. I also know that there is no place for my line of thought on this board and it probably isnt welcome. We should all probably try to forget about this and start argueing if the "new" Fbody will have a V6 or a I6 I guess and bask in the fading glory.

...BTW I do have my flame retardent underwear on, so feel free.

You crack me up! Later, Mike

There we were in Sembach a nitrous sniffing blown mustang and a 383 lingenfelter Z-28 on the sidelines with for sale signs in the window WTF. I even tried to instigate them you know me and all I can say is what better way to advertise than to kick my a$$. If I was trying to sell either one of them cars I woulda kicked the crap out of and or embarrased the Firehawk and answer the spectators question and word of mouth would have sold them cars. My guess is they had money but could not drive. Either car coulda woulda shoulda beat me but refused to prove therself so the chicken looses in my book(not meaning Firehawk) Now most of the guys on this board woulda at least lined up packing that kind of power under the hood so you would be cool win or loose in my book. Keep in mind I do not plan to be beat by Z06 or Viper this summer either. So if the new mustang whatever Cobra,GT40 wants to play. I hope he can drive and I can only race what I have and that is a almost stock car. Here is something else a soldier in the PLT bought a brand new M3 and he talks but will not play anybody can buy a fast car but can you drive?

There you have it...........

I think it also needs saying that the bewinged Mustang Cobra R thingy was a 2 seater and cost the same as a Vette Z06. It was never, therefore, a competitor for the Camaro, it was a rival for the Viper and the Vette.
I'm not brand loyal either and in fairness, I'd say that I'd buy a Mustang if it had an LS1 in it because I prefer the dimensions. As it stands, in the UK, it's not even like I have a choice. The LS1 is the best stock performance you can buy, pound for pound. I also don't think that the Mustang vs F-body is such a big thing in the UK as it is in the States. I'm just glad to see people driving muscle cars and ensuring the survival of the species. More Mustang sales are good because only sales will persuade GM to bring on another legend. I think I've rambled off the point, what was it again?

I think most of you are making great arguments.

I have to say I pretty much totaly agree with Rob's last post. Maybe because I was a Mustang fan before I finally gave up on Ford ever answering GM (now it looks like a little to soon). I basically desided the Camaro was the best bang for the buck, or the best bang for my budgeted buck.

Hawk, your last line is one of my philosophies I just wish I could back it up better (note to self: practice launching Camaro).

LuS1fer, I also agree with your second to last line. More sales for Ford = GM better release something!!!

Just thought I would throw my 2 cents in or I guess I just threw yours back in

Wow, I didn't know men could get so emotional over such a trivial subject!

I think the Cobra is a badass car, but in stock form, it is not quite there yet! I think it's sad that Ford has a 281ci engine that is almost as fast as a 350ci LS1! We all know that if Ford brought back the Windsor 351, we'd be in serious trouble, but until they do, I'm gonna talk all the smack I want to! If I would have seen a new Cobra, when I was shopping, I would have probably driven it, but I didn't, so I went with the fastest thing I could find! Having said that, I love my Z28, and it is just going to keep getting faster, so I'm not even gonna worry about comparing it with another stock car, because at this point, it's pretty far from stock, as are most of our cars!

Rob, you keep this place interesting!

heres the press kit that will be released on Feb 7

http://www.bonforums.com/mustang/cobra_03presskit/

The new (not so new anymore) body style is but ass ugly in my opinion. 390 hp or not. Even if that new cobra was $15000, I still wouldn't own one. Simply a matter of prefference for me.

Site may be of interest - there are a few F-bodies in there.
http://www.ukstreetracers.com

Me likes your quote o'the week